People either love or hate this phrase. What does “be attractive, not attracting” mean to you? And do you think it’s a phrase worth telling someone (particularly a woman) as they’re learning the rules of tznius? If someone said it to you as you were becoming tznius, was it helpful?
Becoming Jewish Without Questioning Your Sanity
Don't like it. Its just semantics. If you want to know what a tzniyus look is, it's this: not sexy.
The problem is that different people will qualify that differently.
AND, tzniyus is more than a look.
I've managed to miss this phrase until now, and don't find it particularly helpful.
I find it only mildly annoying. To me, it's not very descriptive or helpful, but more of another catchphrase that really doesn't say much. I found actually descriptions of what tznius rules were much more helpful as well as pictures.
The phrase reminds me a lot of catch phrases used often in business that are even more irritating because they really don't say anything, but they seem to catch on and everyone repeats them. Prime examples are, "At the end of the day…" (Why should anything be different at the end of the day than at the beginning?!), "Getting into the weeds…" (Can't we just say details? Why are weeds so much more descriptive?), "It is what it is…" (Ok, so what else would it be other than what it is?!)
Thus…why I avoid meetings at all costs. Just say what you really mean, which is, "keep your skirts this length or longer (whatever that is for your community), cover your elbows and collarbones, etc." Bonus points for diagrams or pictures. 🙂
Well, I guess it's sensibility. Don't flaunt everything you've got, maybe cover up a bit more than what's considered appropriate in public, but while you're doing it try to look "pretty," not frumpy. For me, as a woman, that usually means short-sleeves, no cleavage and something that goes over my knees ('cept at the beach :o)) and lots of accessories. But I know women who wear dresses and Muslim women and they dress very tastefully, with nice colors and jewelry or a bit of makeup, even though they cover more they look great.
Too ambiguous. It's one of those feel-good phrases that makes a person confused when they really think about it. It answers nothing really.
I think a woman (and a man for that matter) can tell when they are trying to look nice versus trying to look hot. The gray area between is usually a matter of what you're accustomed to and not so much a matter of principle. For instance I am not one to be super strict about anything much (meaning I adhere and rarely feel the need to go much farther to prove my piousness) but people who would consider themselves more "strict" than I am in other areas such as kashrus surprise me with how provocative their clothing seem to me. Around here I can generally tell the "NYers" because they tend to be heavy on the perfume, make up and high heels. It's their normal, but certainly not mine. Most people around here are more hippy/relaxed even in their best clothing.
Truth is these things will always be influenced by the times and the culture.
the phrase, a fav of BY teachers everywhere, is meaningless. a good guideline for tzanua attire is "cover at least what the community says to, look respectable, but don't dress to turn heads". the problems arise when attire becomes intertwined with self-esteem and getting attention. plus, rules that state a skirt length neglect to specify how tight it shouldn't be, so it's very easy to comply with the letter of the law while completely violating its spirit.
I actually like it because it's a reminder that being modest is not synonymous with frumpy. Our outward appearance, our speech, our mannerisms should all reflect an attentiveness to detail in such a way that we may described as attractive.
I can imagine how irritating it must be to hear that after a while. To me, it makes sense. Dressing to consider yourself attractive (so you feel good about yourself), vs. dressing to attract members of the opposite sex (or same, if you swing that way). I guess the problem lies in someone to whom those things aren't much different, and that others have differing standards of what's dressing to attract.
I find it basically a play on words that is not particularly helpful – to me, though I only keep tznius to go to services etc (which seems common sense but uh… doesn't seem to eb!), specific rules such as "cover your elbows and knees, cover your collarbone" are much more helpful.
Of course, as I found out what tznius was, I also found out that a significant number of my clothes are accidentally tznius already. What can I say – my upper arms have always weirded me out and I like skirts below the knee!
I've never heard it before, and it doesn't convey anything meaningul to me. I agree with others who have said that actual guidelines, examples, pictures, etc. are much more helpful.
It was always more helpful to me to get actual descriptions.
"Attractive but not attracting" simply means be attractive to your husband at all time, but not attracting to other men. Don't dress up for others, just for your husband. Unfortunately, either its due to societal pressure, or an internal conflict, married women tend to dress attractively for others so that they are attracting their attention except their husband's. This also applies to girls, to dress attractive like a daughter of the King (of Kings), but not attracting in a negative way.
This phrase is inherently contradictory. Dressing in a way that pleases your husband will almost invariably please at least *some* other men. The problem is in frum perceptions. There is a tendency to *assume* a woman who dons attractive clothes is doing it to attract men other than her husband. Why the ayin hara? It is not assur to automatically make such assumptions? Not only that, but genuine tzenuah has far more to do with your character traits and conduct that with your garb. There are women who are shomer Shabbat, kashrut, and taharat mishpacha who wear pant-suits and don't cover their hair and are 100% loyal to their husbands in thought and deed. And, there are women who dress super-tzenuah who simply aren't. We don't like to talk about it, but it happens. A nice Jewish lady should not dress like a hussy, its true. But frum standards are out of touch with reality and frequently miss the point. A girl in jeans and a t-shirt may just be comfortable, and may draw LESS attention that a woman dressed in a tzenuah, but attractive skirt suit, etc. My wife, incidentally, has gotten creative: she's purchased some salwar kameez. They are attractive, nay pleasing, and meet the basic requirements of tzenuah despite having pants.
I actually just learned this phrase recently – I'm Christian, and now that I've seen this phrase and some explanation on Jewish beliefs regarding modesty I actually really like it! To me, it means that yes we should wear attractive clothing and take care of our appearance, but not in a way that attracts others to lust after us. Another blog I came across had a conversation on the topic of attractive, stylish and unique clothes and whether these are modest, in that they can attract attention and not be humble. The consensus (which I personally agree with) was that yes, these items can be modest for two primary reasons – 1.) dressing in a way which is attractive and modest, shows that we respect and love God and his laws.. and 2.) The focus is on the clothing/style, and the clothes are not attracting attention for the wrong reasons, or bringing undue attention to "private" parts of the body.