The Gemara says that if a conversion candidate says, “I will keep your Torah, except this one thing,” the rabbi shouldn’t convert him or her. Of course, rabbis have found much to disagree about even in such a straight-forward-sounding sentence, especially when combined with other discussions in the Talmud like Rabbi Hillel’s conversion of a man who agreed only to accept the Written Torah but not the Oral Torah. Rabbis argue whether Hillel actually performed the conversion while he still believed that or only after he came to trust Hillel’s teachings that the Oral Torah exists and is binding on all Jews. This case seems to be the major wrench in this entire debate.
This halacha is most often applied to the case of a woman dating or married to a kohen. A female convert can’t marry a kohen (women can’t be kohanim, so it doesn’t matter for men). So if a woman says, “I want to marry Joe Bob the Kohen here, I want to be converted,” then the rabbi cannot convert her because she is showing the rabbis that she doesn’t intend to keep the prohibition of a convert not marrying a kohen. And this case gives the rabbis the right to infer the intent to not keep a mitzvah based on the actions of the candidate. As the rabbinic rulings evolve over time, there are cases where the rabbis choose to avoid the inference. Rabbis can also choose to not ask the question, as Rabbi David Hoffman said in the case below.
At least one, and probably more, cases involve women being converted to marry a kohen. The one I remember is an exceptionally unusual case from the late 1800s/early 1900s: a gentile woman married a kohen secularly. Their baby died, and she mistakenly assumed the baby was a Jew because his father was a Jew. She became very upset and distressed. This distress was created by the sadness that she and her baby were not of the same religion, and the rabbi was afraid that she might go mad. So the rabbis decided to let her convert. I think this case has very little application for anyone else. And if you want to try to make it applicable by going mad, I think they’re more likely to institutionalize and medicate you long before they convert you. To be fair, the rabbi did not allow her to have a Jewish marriage with her kohen husband. He ruled that it would be “better” for the couple to live together without a Jewish marriage. That last part is included solely for your amusement. It’s not relevant to our discussion.
Going back to the “I want to marry so-and-so” hypothetical above, lack of kabalat ol mitzvot is generally the reason why a person cannot be converted while pursuing a relationship with a non-observant Jew. A house divided cannot stand, and many converts have lost their partner for being “too Jewish.” Without both partners committed to orthodox observance, the convert is not going to be able to observe all of the mitzvot since some involve both sides of a marriage, plus the issues of kashrut and Shabbat (and maybe even sabotage of them by the partner!). While there used to be significant debate about whether such candidates should be accepted anyway (up until just a couple of decades ago?), that debate is mostly closed today, especially since the Israeli Rabbinate has pushed the diaspora states to take a machmir stance on this issue. Performing those kinds of conversions could bring significant disrepute on a rabbi’s other conversions today.
Now I don’t want to scare you, but a failure to have kabalat ol mitzvot at the time of conversion is one of the things that makes a conversion void, as though it never existed. And that’s where the trouble lies: someone could argue that you didn’t have the intention to fulfill all the mitzvot at the time of conversion. The allegations could be based on true events or made-up ones depending on how unlucky you are, but you’re already in an “elite” crowd if you ever have this issue. But getting back to the issue, it’s almost impossible to prove what was in someone’s mind as they stood in the mikvah. Arguing there was no kabalat ol mitzvot can be very difficult unless the candidate immediately violated the mitzvot and continued to do so. This is the subject of the argument over Russian conversions in Israel.
(This same non-observance is a major reason why non-orthodox conversions are not accepted as being legitimate conversions. Because of the alleged failure of even the rabbis – who are responsible for teaching the convert how to be “Jewish” – to observe all the mitzvot as a general rule, there is a presumption that the converts cannot have the halachically required kabalat ol mitzvot at the time of immersion in the mikvah. That is why a liberal conversion that has a beit din, bris, and mikvah could be ruled un-kosher, but there is also the argument that non-observant Jews on the beit din – including the rabbi – make the beit din an invalid beit din, and thus, they cannot approve a conversion.)
Background on the Russian conversion issue: Soviet Jewry was a big deal. Google it if you have no idea what I’m talking about. When the iron curtain fell, Jews and descendants of Jews poured into Israel to begin a new life. These people had been labeled as Jews by the Soviet government and suffered for being Jews. But many were not halachicly Jewish, which doesn’t matter for the purpose of making aliyah, but eventually these immigrants want to get married, etc. There is no civil marriage in Israel, only religious marriage, and the Rabbinate are the arbitrars of who is Jewish enough for a Jewish marriage. Having always affiliated as a Jew but being secular, many of these Russians are having issues resolving their status because they are not willing to take on kabalat ol mitzvot – and I’m glad they’re generally honest enough to say so! But they still want the conversion, and some rabbis are turning to these older responsa that provide alternate ways of defining kabalat ol mitzvot or trying to avoid the issue altogether. Sephardim are generally more lenient in these matters, but the entire thing has been a mess. I don’t foresee it getting resolved anytime soon.
But I guess you want “the answer” to the subject of this post: Can you still convert if you refuse to do X, Y, and Z? I’m no rabbi, but I would say no. However, whether those topics come up in conversation so that the rabbis are aware of your refusal is a different matter. However, in today’s orthodox conversions, it is highly unlikely you will convert if you don’t appear to be accepting everything and living a fully Torah-observant life. The totally secular will not convert unless there were some serious considerations in favor of the conversion and a rabbi willing to stick his neck out for it (they exist). As a practical matter, when you stand in the mikvah (and maybe beforehand too), you will be asked whether you agree to certain things. Acceptance of both the Oral and Written Law and the rabbinic interpretation and enactments will be one of those things. So I hope you’re prepared to answer honestly.
"Can you still convert if you refuse to do X, Y, and Z? I'm no rabbi, but I would say no."
Certainly you can't convert if you eject any mitzvos out of hand (as you suggest, that would not be acceptance of the Torah), but there's still room IMO for someone who has not arrived at the position of keeping any particular mitzvah. Nevertheless, in practical terms I would not expect the powers that be to accept less than full observance today.
There is a big difference between(not) "liking" a mitzvah and (not) keeping it. Lots of FFBers don't like any given mitzveh, but they still are supposed to keep it. It may seem like nit-picking but liking isn't really the issue. I love a good steak and cheese sandwich and my conversion status doesn't change that. It only changes that I accept the responsibility of not eating it. I don't "like" keep my meat and dairy dishes separate but I do it etc…
Though of course you would need to "like" the reason you are doing or not doing these things which you may or may not "like"–you would need to "like" Orthodox Judaism and genuinely wish to observe the mitzvot.
I'm tired here, but I think I've made my point. I hope.
Alright, you two. The title says "like" because that's a question many people think. But all discussion of that within the post, and explicitly discussed at the end is "refuse." This is active rejection. Not "Meh, I think that one's stupid" or "I'm just not ready for X yet." We're talking "I don't agree with this mitzvah, and I refuse to do it."
Well it's not as if I don't know that YOU know that–it's just that it could confusing to people newer to conversion. There are so many things that are so confusing that one could start to think "oh no! I *like* the taste of bacon! That means I can't be a Jew!" or some nonsense lol. Hence the clarification 😉
What of a candidate who would accept the torot as divinely inspired, but transmitted through human authors, not handed directly from God at Sinai?
"Alright"
There is *no* such word.
–Curmudgeonly
>Having always affiliated as a Jew but being secular, many of these >Russians are having issues resolving their status because they are >not willing to take on kabalat ol mitzvot – and I'm glad they're >generally honest enough to say so!
It is not about being unwillig to take on kabala of mitzvot, it is about admitting that one is not Jewish (going for conversion is equivalent to admitting that one is not), which the majority is not prepared to do.
The whole idea that one must be fully observant to be converted is a modern idea. Previously, for example, women could be converted for marriage without full observance. Also, Idumaens were forcibly converted to Judaism when conquered by the Jews. I dont think anyone checked their observance on the ocassion 🙂 C
What if the convert has a physical problem that stops them from being able to carry out a few mitzvah? But would do so if they could?
@ sion-senpai, I've seen a tshuvah saying that a man who cannot have a circumcision for medical reasons (e.g. hemophilia) cannot be converted, no matter how sincere and otherwise observant they are. So they're out of luck. It would suck to be adopted by a Jewish family and raised Jewish but be unable to marry another Jewish person, or cook their food or drink their wine and basically be shut out by the Orthodox Jewish world.
I have a good friend whose grandmother was a convert. Her grandfather was a kohen. He therefore gave up being a kohen and broke the line.
Um, it doesn't work that way. Oh, the kids are still kohanim, but now they're also chalalim. (A chalal is a kohen who is unable to be called up as a kohen for torah reading, or do the kohen's jobs in the temple, and pretty much loses any advantage he had as a kohen. And like a mamzer, it is irreversible and extends down the line. Also, the daughters of such unions are never allowed to marry a kohen. Ever. And the same rule applies to the sons of such unions' daughters.)
@Anonymous http://crazyjewishconvert.blogspot.com/2012/03/what-if-you-dont-like-one-of-mitzvotcan.html?showComment=1330758093947#c4312687813455978134
Please explain what you mean by divinely inspired but not handed down directly from God.
Converted after a long three year process. A few months down the line fell in love with Kohen. I can't even begin to tell you the pain I am in. We are together still, but we are lost. There is no solution and it's the most heart breaking thing ever.
To Anonymous: Hi, In a similar situation. Could you have a civil marriage? If you want a jewish wedding/ceremony after it could be officiated by a conservative/masorti rabbi. Your children will be jewish which is the main thing and you'll be officialy married. Your partner will remain a cohen but couldnt do any cohen duties. Your children would be the same but they in turn couldnt marry a cohen. Is this a route you could take? At least your further down the line than us – Im jewish, my partner is reform and not orthodox so would have to convert – but im a cohen so we couldnt have an orthodox marriage anyway like yourselves….and she may not even be allowed to convert in any case if it was being done to marry a cohen…
Anonymous 1: Yes, I don't envy that situation 🙁 I'm sorry I don't have any answers. I do know some who have "disaqualified" themselves from being a Kohen by investigating family history. I know someone even considered cutting off a finger because the rest of the family is very religious and therefore, discrediting a prior marriage wasn't an option because it would affect so many others. It's awful and difficult, but it's not totally impossible. Remember to also dig deep in your family. I know someone who was dating a Kohen, was starting to look at converting, and discovered that she was halachically Jewish but the Jewish heritage had been completely abandoned (and unknown to later generations) since WWII.
Anonymous 2: You're right, people do that all the time. However, don't assume a conservative/Masorti rabbi will do it. Some absolutely will not approve such a marriage. However, one point seemed unclear: "Im jewish, my partner is reform and not orthodox so would have to convert." Reform Jews are still Jews in the conservative and orthodox communities so long as they have the right lineage. I'm assuming you mean that your partner converted reform? But if your partner isn't orthodox, and if you're not orthodox (you don't say, but it's unusual for orthodox to date/marry non-orthodox), then why would an orthodox marriage matter to you?
As to your point, if you get a liberal marriage, why get a civil marriage first? Civil marriage is normally thrown out there as a way to force orthodox rabbis to find a way to make a religious marriage possible. But if the rabbi will approve of the marriage, there's no need for the trouble and expense of two separate marriage ceremonies. Not to mention the date juggling.
Hi Kochava, (im anonymous2) To clarify, Im orthodox, my partner whom i live with, is reform. She has lived an orthodox life hence us meeting as her father is orthodox but her mother converted reform as did she as a young girl. Current situation, we live together and would like to get married. Normally she/we would have gone through the conversion process but as im a cohen there is a problem. Even if she was able to convert we couldnt have an orthodox wedding. The only possible solution (unless a rabbi felt it to be of exceptional circumstance)is a marriage, whether it civil or liberal, so that we are at least then married and living together so at which point a conversion, if sanctioned, could be possible whilst allowing us stay together during the process (as currently she would have to live elsewhere and we couldnt be offically together). We could then have orthodox children but I would lose my cohenim duties so the result is not perfect but dare i say it, the former is more important than the latter.
You're orthodox, yet you're considering cutting you and your children off from priesthood, your G-dly legacy, forever? For a woman?
If you're not orthodox, why do you care what the orthodox say? If you marry a reform converted woman through a liberal congregation (most likely reform or reconstructionist), then your children will be Jewish. You will still be considered a Kohen and will serve those duties in your community. However, if you visit a conservative or orthodox community, you should admit to yourself (not to them if that would be awkward) that you are no longer a kohen for their purposes. So you don't get up if they call for Kohanim. If someone asks, you just say you're not a kohen. Your sons will have to get a ruling as adults whether they can act as kohanim if they choose to be more religious. However, that only applies in the conservative movement since they now accept many reform conversions as valid. If your kids want to leave the liberal Jewish movements, then they'll have to convert, so they can't be kohanim anyway. No matter what you do, your children will have questionable Jewish status, even in the conservative movement.
My most practical advice, since you seem attached to being a kohen and because you mention she would like to be more orthodox, is that you break up and move on. I know that's the nuclear option, and I don't suggest it lightly. Many conversion candidates (myself included) were seriously dating or engaged to non-Jews or non-orthodox Jews. We came to a point when we had to decide where we belong, or our partners decided for us that they weren't coming. If you go forward, this road will be very hard on both of you and your children. Most couples I know who entered the conversion process were not strong enough together (or really committed enough to each other) to see it through. There's nothing good or bad about that or the people involved; it just is. We have to know our desires and our limits, and not everyone should be involved in this kind of situation. From a more hippie dippie standpoint, these challenges may be presented from Gd to push the two of you to grow, and perhaps not in the same direction. I've also experienced this in my own relationships. It was very important for me to meet and love certain people, but we reached a point when it couldn't/shouldn't continue. And in every single case, we fought it and let the relationship continue way too long, which led to a lot of pain and suffering.
As always, I can't pretend I really understand your situation because each is unique in both its beauty and its challenges. But I have had and seen similar problems, and that's the basis for my ideas above. Perhaps a neural third party familiar with Judaism's streams could be helpful as a personal or relationship therapist? It can be hard to tweeze out all the conflicting emotions and pressures and see what YOU really want in life.
Im an orthodox jew as in chalachically. Im not frum. i dont want to give up my cohen duties but i would if it meant i could have jewish children. Of course you dont agree but at this stage im looking for practical advice on my situation.